Charging batteries with a Gennie

Submitted: Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 10:13
ThreadID: 44591 Views:5014 Replies:7 FollowUps:46
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G'day all,

Firstly a bit of background info....

Previously we had a camper with a 12v/240v system and a couple of orbital batteries in it. We have sold it and now want to set a fridge up in the car for camping trips and the like. The fridge is an Engel 80L and we have recently purchased a Honda EU10i generator.

The car has a dual battery system which includes a Rotronics charger/isolator a Pirahna Battery Monitor in the cab all managing two Exide Orbital blue top batteries.

What we want to do is go camping as normal run the fridge off the batteries and have the gennie charge the aux when it gets too low (I imagine the cranking battery shouldn't get low due to the battery system).

I have read all kinds of threads over the past two days about the subject, things like 3 stage chargers etc.

What I wanted to know is weather it is ok to run the fridge off the battery & then just hook up the gen set to charge it back up to capacity, or are we better off running the fridge off the genny where possible?
I understand that a completely flat battery is likely to take about 7hrs to charge using the generator, so is it better to top it up every day?
Should we get some sort of regulator to ensure that the battery isn't overcharged or is it just as easy to use a multimeter? If you say regulator then please include any good brands you know of to consider.

We are likely to be driving the car most days for at least a short period of time - exploring the surrounds etc so it makes sense to have the fridge in there giving the batteries more chance at recharging. The gennie was purchased for the times when we don't drive each day & also due to it's versatility compared to something like a Christie. Thinking of when the kids get older and want to bring along unknown gadgets and also when we want to use the laptop etc. Other than that I don't generally take a kettle / toaster or such luxuries.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm pretty good at researching stuff but sometimes you get a lot of contradicting info and electronics tend to be confusing at the best of times.

And yeah I'm posting on behalf of both of us because hubby generally doesn't have the time to do so!

Cheers,

Kristina

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Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 10:31

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 10:31
Hi Kristina

I run a similar setup in my own rig.

I leave the fridge on the 12V as it is too hard to start swaping leads and plugs over.

Your new batteries will accept around 25 amps per hour when less than 80% full. I would use a 25A Smart Charger and run the generator only until the bulk light goes off and the charger goes into absorbsion mode. This should be around 2 hours per day for the 80L Engel. Running the generator until the battey is fully charged will take a very long time. Just make sure to fully charge the batteries when you get home. There is no need for regulators as the Smart Charger is just that and has built in regulation.



Regards

Derek.
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 10:39

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 10:39
Smart Charger! Yes that's the other thing I've read being mentioned in archived posts. Thanks I will definitely pass the info on to my husband, the picture you posted helps in seeing what it is.

Must say I didn't really take into consideration the fact that you would have to switch cords all the time going between 240v & 12v.

From my understanding the generator can only pump out 8 amps an hour to charge the battery, does the smart charger increase the capacity by some way or would we still be limited by the gennie?
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Follow Up By: rolande- Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:08

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:08
G'Day Kristina.

I think what Derek means is to use the 240V output of the gennie to power the smart charger, which will then intially put up to 25 amps per hour into the battery. As it switches the amps are reduced and therefore the efficiency of the system is also reduced.

So, each time you charge for a couple of hours until the "bulk light goes off" and then turn the gennie / charger off

Hope this helps

Rolande
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:12

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:12
Thanks Rolande, I understand now, and thank you both for answering what must be rather basic and probably frequently asked questions on here.

I guess the thing to do now is go into a shop and have a closer look at these Smart Chargers and educate myself a bit more on how they work.
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Follow Up By: rolande- Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:17

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:17
G'Day Kristina,

There are some very well wirtten books and articles by Colin Rivers.

I have included a link to his "smart charger" page below.

If you read through this all will seem much clearer.

colin rivers

Regards

Rolande
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:21

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:21
I'm onto it!
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:29

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:29
Fantastic info thanks Rolande, explains it very well. Gives us an idea of the cost as well, more than I expected but in the end you do get what you pay for as they say.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:41

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:41
I have 2 of these chargers (but they are both only the 15amp version). One is in the Patrol, connected to the Fullriver 120a/h AGM; the other is in our camper trailer, connected to a pair of Supercharge Gold Series 105a/h batteries. In the Patrol I have a 40 litre Engel. In the camper I have a 80 litre, front-opening Engel fridge. Both of these fridges have an automatic switching system, such that when the units sense 240 volts is available, they automatically run off the 240 volts.....no need to change any plugs over whatsoever. However, some of the older chest type Engels did not have this system.....you had to remove one plug and slide a plastic bit across so that the other plug could be installed. I would doubt that the 80 litre Engel (which are relatively new on the market) would have that older system, so you should be able to leave both plugs connected.

Anyway, once I have access to 240 volts (either via the Yammie 1kva gennie or from a mains supply), I simply plug both the Patrol and camper in and the 240v takes over. The 1kva Yamaha gennie has plenty of grunt to run the 2 fridges (and more if others in our group have a fridge/charger too) as well as the 2 smart chargers.

What Derek says about taking a long time to get the batteries up to "FLOAT" level is true; depending on how low the batteries are in the first place, of course. Personally I hate to see my batteries EVER get as low as 12 volts and will usually do something about it before they get that low.

Cheers

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:51

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:51
Yes you're right the Engel has two plugs & two sockets, I thought for some reason that it had only one socket and the two plugs would have to be switched over some time.

Sounds like all we have to do is get a charger then. Hmmm yet to find out the do's & dont's of camping with a gennie as well. I imagine the Honda is very much like the Yamaha seems reasonably quiet - well it's quieter than our car anyway!
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 18:20

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 18:20
Depending on your style of camping, you may not even need the gennie anyway. I only take ours on a trip if I know we are likely to be camping in the same spot for at least 3 days and if it is likely to be pretty hot.

The 2 SuperCharge batteries in the camper will keep everything going for at least 3 days (unless it is REALLY hot). I keep my fridges running 24/7 (even at home) and the camper and Patrol are always plugged into 240 volts when I'm at home.
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 18:48

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 18:48
Roachie, that's exactly how it used to work for us, two batteries and fridge in the camper (Adventure) with an eski in the car just for drinks. Out of 2 Orbitals we'd get about 4 or close to 5 days. The stock battery it came with only gave us 2 and a half days.
But we decided to sell up and get a cheaper camper (All Terrain) and this time put the fridge in the back of the car so we don't need to dish out the $$ for electrics. Mind you buying a genny and that the cost isn't much different really. But we also saw the advantage in the fact that when you travel about often the car recharges it's batteries whereas the camper is more likely to stay put for longer.

Anyway you are right for short trips or where we will be moving around often we may not even need the gennie but it will of course accompany us in it's own box on the draw bar of the camper just in case.
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Reply By: bob&loz - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:12

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:12
Outa Bounds
I think you are talking about the 12v outlet on the genny. You don't use this to charge battery's but must use a 240v battery charger plugged into the genny. also depending on the capacity of the charger whether it would charge up quicker if running the fridge off the genny at same time
Bob
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:20

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:20
My understanding was that the 12v dc socket is to be used for the purpose of charging a battery using the lead supplied with the generator (ie hooking it up straight to the battery). It's correct isn't it that you could charge the battery using this method but would obviously take a while and would also have to monitor it to prevent overcharging? I was also told that you can't actually run any 12 appliances from this outlet.

However I now understand that to use a battery charger such as a smart charger I would have to do it via the 240v outlet. And that is the preferable method.

Thanks,

Kristina
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:37

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:37
I guess the article below is what you're talking about...

Site Link

We were basically told the opposite of what the above article says - they said we couldn't run 12v appliances and the outlet was to be used for charging batteries. He said we would basically run any appliaces off the 240v socket.
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Follow Up By: disco1942 - Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 15:18

Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 15:18
Kristina

"It's correct isn't it that you could charge the battery using this method but would obviously take a while and would also have to monitor it to prevent overcharging?"

The 12 V output from these generators is too low to charge a battery. Therefore you do not need any device to prevent overcharging.

PeterD
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Reply By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:45

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:45
Another of Collins articles answered another of my questions!

Site Link
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Reply By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:54

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 11:54
Thanks everyone for clearing things up a lot.

We'll look into getting a 3 stage charger & we'll be set.

More input is welcome of course, I'm sure the thread will also be useful to someone else down the track as well.
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Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 12:59

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 12:59
Hi again,

I took the family out for breakfast so missed your other questions but the answers you have above are all good and you now have a clearer understanding of what you need.

Regards

Derek.

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Follow Up By: Member - Crazy Dog (QLD) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 13:21

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 13:21
Yo Kristina - check my add that I only just put up today in TRADER section - 2 x 3 stage battery chargers..

Grrr!!!
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Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 13:42

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 13:42
Hi Grrr !!!

They are not what she needs.

A single 25A unit is her best option for quick charge.

Your units will be great for maintenance charging.

Regards

Derek.
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Follow Up By: Grizzle - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:38

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:38
If your Honda Gennie has an economy mode, make sure you run it at full speed as this can affect charging.

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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:50

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:50
Yes it has the eco throttle so thanks for the tip - I did come across some info in the archives which said something to that effect. And I remember reading somewhere that you should use something like between 30% to 80% of it's power, using it long term below the 30% mark could be detrimental to the gennie itself and not covered under warranty.
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Reply By: Peter McG (Member, Melbourne) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 14:04

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 14:04
Kristina

If you're moving every day ypou should have enough in the battery to run the fridge for at least 24 hours without exernal charging. More than that then it will be worth looking at using the generator. We have a 50l Waeco and can easily get 2 days fridge use from the aux battery.

Peter
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 14:16

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 14:16
Thanks, that gives us a good idea on run time particularly if we're in a place where gennies aren't appreciated. We had a dual battery system & 40L engel in the back some time before the kids came along (different car too) and don't recall any problems apart from having to go for a real decent drive to charge the batteries back up.

We do have a third battery in the shed which we may think about hooking up as well. Not sure if it would work and having the genny will probably negate the need.

There is only one way to find out now - set it all up and go for a trip or two.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 14:28

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 14:28
I would welcome Derek's comments on what I do below:

I charge mine (twin wetcell cranking batteries) off a 20amp 13.8volt regulated power power supply, which costs $99. But I do so at home, and not off a generator - I have no idea about whether its suitable to run off the Honda, but I can't see why not.

I measure whats going on with both DMM and ammeter. I use the power supply because it never goes above 13.86 volts, so I don't have any issues with running 12volt accessories while charging, and I can't overcharge the batteries. And it doubles as a bench power supply for mucking around in the garage. It delivers a genuine 20amps when the batteries are sufficiently down.

It looks like this:

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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 14:37

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 14:37
Might add the gadget I recently got to measure volts, amps, watts and capacity is an Efite power meter. Its used by the R/C aeroplane guys - neat bit of gear, but so far I've found the ammeter to be fairly inaccurate - I'm still sussing it out.


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Follow Up By: lifeisgood - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 18:03

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 18:03
Hii Phil G I have thought about these regulated power supplies also because of their value for money. The 20 amp max output is useful for a fairly discharged battery.
It will obviously still take longer to bring the battery up at 13.8v than a 3 stage charger. It takes the higher volts (say 14.5v) to bring it up quicker, as per a car alternator. For the price though I think you have a great unit.
Good at the caravan park where you have more time to bring the batteries back before going bush again.
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Follow Up By: lifeisgood - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 18:14

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 18:14
For anyone interested , Phils unit is available from Jaycar p/n MP-3078.
There is also 12amp unit $70 or a massive 40 Amp $180. The script does not suggest battery charging to be one of its uses however. (doesnt say you cant either!! ) Anyone else been using them??
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Follow Up By: Robin - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 19:20

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 19:20
Phils unit is perfectly suitable and inexpensive , for those who don't mind measuring the volts etc and being in control a bit.

Maybe not as cute and failsafe as a fully auto unit.

I don't use that exact unit - but generally use high powered low cost and low weight switched mode power supplies to do a similar thing.

Some people also use them buy putting a known amout of fuel in gennie and
just letting it run out , hence protecting from overcharge.

Robin Miller
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Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:17

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:17
Hi Phil

Your 20 amp supply will work in the short term but you will build up sulphation on the plates of the batteries and slowly kill them. You may have already noticed a decrease in capacity.

I would recommend a Smart Charger and charge the batteries at 14.3 to 14.4 Volts to keep the sulphation down. The Smart charger will then also float down to 13.78 volts when charged.

There is also a product called a megapulse that you can use in conjunction with your 20A supply that will help prevent sulphation.

I don't sell them but I'm sure someone will say they are available at J-car.

Regards

Derek.

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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 00:18

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 00:18
Thanks Derek, I'll heed your advice.
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Follow Up By: Robin - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 08:31

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 08:31
Derrick , sulphation occurs primarily by keeping a battery undercharged , not by charging it at 13.8 volts.

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: disco1942 - Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 15:39

Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 15:39
Robin

13.8 V is only a maintenance charge. To fully charge a battery you have to charge it at 14.1 - 14.8 V (depending on the type of battery) until the current drops to 1-2 A. Note Derek's comments in Reply 1. What he is describing there is the bulk charge which brings your battery up to around 80%. You then have to go through the absorption stage until the current drops to the stage where the charger drops down to its float level before a battery can be considered fully charged.

When the bulk charge is completed some parte of the battery are at full charge level. Whilst the absorption stage is carried out the rest of the battery is equalised out to some extent. In large installations a voltage of over 15 V is applied for 10-20 minutes to make sure the batteries are completely equalised.

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Follow Up By: Robin - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 09:08

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 09:08
Hi PeterD

What you are describing is more generally known as an IUI charging characteristic.

It is good and effective and the basis of many fast chargers.

Do not, however assume that it is the best method of charging.
(nor is a straight permanent 13.8v connection)

In fact, the requirement for absorption is an inherent admission
of the weakness of that system.

The 13.8v , actually stresses a battery less because it takes longer and essentially
bypasses the need to let the battery recover, without effects of sulphation.

Robin Miller
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Reply By: Redback - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 18:54

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 18:54
I only have one thing to say, generaters are for lazy people.

OK do your best of abusing me

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 19:02

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 19:02
Hi Redback,

No need for abuse, I don't take such comments too personally or take offense as everyone has a different opinion and perspective on things, one of the reasons to post a question on an open forum in the first place.

I am interested, what is your preferred method of generating power? I'm guessing solar?
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Follow Up By: warfer69 - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:16

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:16
**I only have one thing to say, generaters are for lazy people. **

trying real hard to be LAZY but they wont deliver it ! ~(8--)
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:30

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:30
Just curious: how do non-lazy people charge batteries?
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Follow Up By: Redback - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:35

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:35
Well i have 2 ways i charge my batteries, that's my auxillary in the car, the camper battery and the laptop, phone, camera, video and anything else i need to charge or power, and that includes the Nebulizer my daughter needs for her Asthma, i have a Pure sine wave inverter for the Nebulizer.

I use the solar panel as a topup device for the camper battery (it's only a 10watt panel) for the others i use an inverter to charge the rest overnight (seperatly of course) then go for a drive in the morning to recharge the auxillery battery in the car.

Pretty simple setup i have, and we can camp for 10 days or more depending on the type of whether we have when camping, but without sun around 8 to 10 days.

Bloody generators are noisey pains in the arse.

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Redback - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:39

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:39
Bugger that's weather not whether.

Mike, you have my way, simple really, as i said gennies are for people who don't know any other way but the lazy way!!!!!!

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:55

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:55
Hi Redback

I have a GMC $98 generator and I always camp in the middle of nowhere - it's noisy
so I only run it in the middle of the day (ideally when I'm out of camp prospecting) but as I'm usually, at least, 50km from others that doesn't seem to be an issue - the wombats haven't complained thus far :) Now given that my Amateur Radio will pull about 20 amps from my battery on Tx I wonder which other way you would suggest I charge it when I'm bush for a week or more?

I suppose it depends if you camp near other people or not... - I don't so it doesn't.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Member - Steve T (NT) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 22:21

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 22:21
Hey Redback.

Not quite sure of your logic, when it comes to being lazy.

In order to use a gen set, you need to unpack it from your kit, pick it up, walk it 25/30 mtrs, try to sound proof it, fuel it, pull cord to start it, then plug all necessary kit into it, then when you finished with it, do the reverse to pack it away.

With your set up all you have to do is turn a key.

Having said that perhaps what I am doing is wrong, advice from those who know would be appreciated.

My set up is 2 n70zz batteries direct wired to each other by thick battery cable, Neg to Neg Pos to Pos except the Pos on the second battery has the wind up terminal.

Then I have 30 amp fused 6mm cable to a 7 pin plug to the rear of the car, then same 6mm cable to deep cycle battery in my trailer, charges as I go.
Deep cycle and 2nd battery run a Engel and some lights and a 300 watt inverter for camera batteries etc.

It just seems like a simple way to do this, Now I hear you say every time you stop, you have to undo the bonnet to undo the terminal, well yes that's right, but the last thing I do in the morning before I go, is close the terminal and check the oil, the bonnet is already up.

I've been doing this for 6 years is this wrong.

Cheers Steve.
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Follow Up By: Redback - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 07:48

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 07:48
Having batteries in series as you have is a good way of running things, also it helps keep them in good condition, i was told that having 6volt batteries in series was a better way, not sure of this maybe someone can confirm this.

As for lazy, most people who don't that you can have power readily available with 12volt and a means of charging it, will go for the gennie as all they need to use is their 240v stuff from home, like fluro lights so they light up the who campsite and atract every god dam bug for 50ks, heaters, air con, toasters, jugs and so on.

I can understand the guy camping in the middle of knowhere for weeks on end, pigging or propecting, but the average camper doesn't need a gennie really, most of the gear like cameras and laptops and phones can be charged from the car.

I have a tip for those who may not know but if it is cloudy and i can't use my 10watt solar panel to charge the camper battery, i run a charger off an inverter from my auxillary battery in the car overnight, then i go for a drive in the morning to recharge my auxillary battery.
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 08:16

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 08:16
I guess it's less lazy to go for a drive instead of starting up a gennie but either way you are using fuel to charge the batteries in that instance.

I have nothing against solar energy, it would be great to have a house that predominantly uses solar power!

I can also understand the annoyance people get from others that take gennies along with all their 240v accessories from home, heck some take chest freezers that have been set up to run off inverters as well etc.

In simple terms we're looking to use our dual battery system in the car & the gennie only really as a back up for charging them up if needed. We will more than likely get an adapter for the laptop so that it can run from a 12v cigarette lighter connection, and apart from laptop and fridge the rest of the camping gear is mainly clothing, food and utensils the rest is spares and recovery gear for the car.

Of course the reason for getting a gennie over anything else is because we saw it being a handy item, when the power goes out for extended periods etc etc. I'm sure a solar panel is also a versatile thing and your are correct we don't fully know how to take advantage of it and set it up correctly, and like a lot of things you more often read the negatives compared to positives and it is easier to say oh no they're just too big, expensive, bulky, breakable need cleaning etc etc.

There is always a better or different way of doing something, we chose to go with a gen set, you consider it a lazy option and well maybe it is but in the end not everyone wants to drive a Landcruizer either.
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Follow Up By: Redback - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 08:29

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 08:29
The laptop can be run from an inverter and they don't use that much power even from an inverter, we have done this as we couldn't see the value of some of these 12v power adaptors, some are just way too expensive.

Our panel is only 10watt it suits us but it maybe to small for others and their needs, and they are stonger than you think, surprisingly strong.

A mate of mine that we go camping with has a gennie as a backup too, so far it hasn't been used.

And yes it's true not everyone wants to drive a Landcrooser ;-))

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 09:11

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 09:11
I would love to use a solar panel (80W would be fine ) if only I could get one for a decent price !! Like less than $500 !!!

By the time you buy a panel ( 6 to 7 hundred + ) a solar controller ( $250 ) and factor in some cloudy weather, plus work out how many times a year you need to recharge the batts ( have the capacity to last approx 4 days, so once or twice a year max ) ...........is the money well spent ??

Still cheaper than a gennie, but maybe I'm a bit scabby with my money, but having the capacity to hire a solar setup for a couple of times a year ( maybe only once a year ) would be a good idea !!!!!
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 09:28

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 09:28
There's an idea! Buy it and hire it out when not using it, you should make your money back no worries. But then would you really trust someone with your panel? I probably wouldn't.

We're lucky enough to be able to go away frequently for short periods (like 4 days) because Terry works on a 9 on 5 off roster at the moment. If you only get to do it a few times a year then I can see how you would question the value in spending the money. An alternative would be to look at hiring a camper trailer that comes equipped with a solar panel! But the amount they cost (eg Complete Campsite) in a few trips you could have easily have brought your own panel!

It would be ideal if you could find a use for it at home.
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 02:52

Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 02:52
Re; "I only have one thing to say, generators are for lazy people"

Some ppl don't want the hassle of setting up a genie, carrying extra petrol, finding a place to store the genie in the truck and having the 'neighbours' tell you to turn the bludy thing off, its too noisy L0L

Baz, 'lazy people' actually use SOLAR POWER :-))

They have to do absolutely nothing at all
and with the added benefits

..NO noise
..NO ongoing costs
..NO maintenance costs
..WITH battery performance
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FollowupID: 496835

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 13:41

Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 13:41
Lazy ?? how do you keep the drinks cold if your camped in the one spot for 10+ days ?? drive the car every day when there is no need to ?? big time waste of fuel , solar or gen set for when solar gets clouded out ,,. as the old girls say "the only difference between the men and the boys is the price of their toys " hang the expense gotta love the toys ,solar +genny +a thumping big turbo diesel if all else fails.
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FollowupID: 496891

Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 14:43

Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 14:43
Some ppl obviously don't use Solar :-))

With a (decent) Solar system the (AGM recommended) Deep Cycle 12v battery is recharged during the daytime at a very much greater rate than it’s discharged during the previous 24 hours.

The secret is all in the "power supply" (12v AGM battery) this ugly dark heavy & yes costly device actually STORES and supplies enough 12v electricity to run ALL the required 12v items in the camp, for at least 3 days.
If not, then it's seriously undersized, and a second identical 12v AGM battery should be added, in PARALLEL, not in ‘series’ as stated elsewhere!!

The (decent) Solar system tops up & replaces the power used on a daily basis, however if it's cloudy for 3 days, and if you regrettably bought an 'elcheapo' crap solar panel then you are in trouble, because after three days you will have to start the engine and recharge any type of battery.

Best method is the Solar panel/s should supply more power than the fridge uses, so when the fridge is running the Solar system is actually maintaining the (AGM) battery at least at the same level, if not topping it up & keeping it at above 12.6v, when the fridge stops all the available power is then recharging the (AGM) battery.

Better quality Solar panels work in both early morning and late afternoon light, so the sun hours are greatly extended, however they cost more than the ‘elcrapo; panels, so what you pay for is what you get.

Why would someone camp in a place where it's cloudy, it would probably be wet also.
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FollowupID: 496898

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 17:33

Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 17:33
Mainey ,mine was a very much tongue in cheek followup , I run an 80lt Waeco + a 15lt Engle so draw an average of 64+42 amps per 24hrs from my 400amp hrs worth of Fullriver AGM hgl batts and use a 64 Unisolar + a 125 kycera thru a Steca 20 to keep the juices flowing ,, sometimes due to cloud or slackness such as going away from camp for a longer than expected period the panels are not utilised at there best angle/position ,ergo the genny comes into play thru the CTEK battery charger , still recon that its cheaper to run the genny for an hr or 3 than to run the big diesel for the sametime .
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FollowupID: 496933

Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 18:22

Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 18:22
Alloy, swap the Unisolar for another Kycera or better still the new Sharp 123w panel and your problem will be close enough to solved, L0L

the 400ah battery bank must be some monster :-))
is it 4 x 100 HGL's & why not DC's?

It makes my 220ah system only just reasonable, my 200wt system runs through a Steca 15 @ >12a.
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FollowupID: 496940

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 18:42

Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 at 18:42
5x 80 amp AGM hgl weigh less than the same in deep cycle format and allow me the versatility of placement ,also find that the HGLstand up better if required to be used as a starter ,, as for swapping away the Unisolar , nah , I realy dont mind the cost of running the Genny when needed ,tank only holds 4.5lt and the sucker will run for better than 12hrs on that ,, cant tell me any honda will do the same , yep mine is one of them noisey 2strokes , all of 53db at full throttle ,Honda 1kva is 52db measued at same distance {7 metre} , yep , cant beat a Scorpion 2stroke.
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FollowupID: 496946

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